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Post by Score on May 27, 2007 11:18:12 GMT -3
If I'm not mistaken, Grags has 6 days to sign with Buffalo.
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Post by wingman on May 27, 2007 11:45:57 GMT -3
Yes he does, but aren't they still able to sign him after June 1st? I'm not exactly sure how it works if doesn't get signed, not sure if he would go back in the draft or not or if he is free to sign with anyone. I am not sure if there is a hold up with just Gragnani or not but they haven't signed any other amateur players either.
Buffalo has some big decisions to make regarding free agents, and apparently Regier and perhaps even Ruff isn't signed for next year yet either. That might also be a factor as to why there have been no signings/announcements so far.
I said before that I wouldn't be a surprised if he didn't get signed by Buffalo. He might get signed by them but June 1st is approaching fast.
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Post by Score on May 27, 2007 12:18:31 GMT -3
Yes he does, but aren't they still able to sign him after June 1st? I'm not exactly sure how it works if doesn't get signed, not sure if he would go back in the draft or not or if he is free to sign with anyone. I am not sure if there is a hold up with just Gragnani or not but they haven't signed any other amateur players either. Buffalo has some big decisions to make regarding free agents, and apparently Regier and perhaps even Ruff isn't signed for next year yet either. That might also be a factor as to why there have been no signings/announcements so far. I said before that I wouldn't be a surprised if he didn't get signed by Buffalo. He might get signed by them but June 1st is approaching fast. I'm not sure if he has a choice to opt into the draft or to just become a FA and take an offer from whomever... Buffalo will sign him, and you'll see Grags in the AHL next season.
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Post by Hockeyfan99 on May 27, 2007 13:04:40 GMT -3
My understanding is that if he is not signed by June 1st Gragnani would go back into the draft. Then if not drafted would become a free agent.
And I expect Buffalo to sign him and there are still lots of other good prospects from that Draft who haven't been signed by their respective NHL organizations.
Having said that if by some chance Buffalo makes a mistake and chooses not to sign Gragnani I am sure another team would take him in the draft and assign him to their respective AHL team. IMO he has very good NHL skill which will attract lots of teams and although not yet ready for the NHL returning to the Q would be a waste and wouldn't help his development any.
Good post though Score and certainly something we should follow over the next few days.
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Post by wingman on May 27, 2007 18:55:14 GMT -3
Time will tell. He may very well wind up being signed by Buffalo and may very well be in the AHL next year but I don't think those things are a guarantee and to me I won't be surprised if those things didn't happen.
Alot of times if players are a lock to be in the AHL and/or NHL after playing junior, they are signed to an amateur tryout contract to play for their drafted team's AHL squad for the playoffs. For whatever reason that didn't happen with Gragnani and the Sabres/Rochester, especially where the Americans were thin on the blueline for the playoffs due to injuries.
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Post by Hockeyfan99 on May 28, 2007 8:21:25 GMT -3
Just thought I would do a little digging into Buffalo’s situation and here is what I found. Sabres NHL DefenseCampbell Kalinin Lydman Tallinder Spacek Nummenin (UFA) Paetsch Other roster players who split the season in NHL/AHL and likely won’t be AHL next seasonLehtonen (1978 and a UFA) Hebling (1981 and a UFA) Sabers AHL players (playoff roster)Smith (1973 and an AHL veteran) Sekera (1986 and 3rd ranked prospect) Funk (1986 and 7th ranked prospect) Card (1986 and 15th ranked prospect) hockeysfuture.com/articles/9688It looks like Rochester had 5 defense roster spots and it appears the reason Grags didn’t get an invite to the AHL playoffs is because they wanted to tryout 20 yr olds Funk and Card who played in the WHL this season. And according to HF’s AHL review both did well so you can probably assume that those 4 will likely return, if not Sekera then 1 of Lehtonen or Hebling. Meaning there will likely only be 1 maybe at most 2 roster spots open on Rochesters blueline next season. Other top defensive prospects in the Sabers organization8th - Gragnani (1987 and played in the Q) 9th - Persson (1988 and played in Sweden) 12th - Weber (1987 and played in the OHL) 13th - Buravchikov (1987 and played in Russia) 14th - Butler (1986 and played NCAA) 19th - Biega (1988 and played NCAA) hockeysfuture.com/articles/9519Of that group Grags will have stiff competition from Weber and possibly Buravchikov plus there is always the possibility that Florida will want more than 3 defense roster spots next season as they had a couple of defensemen in the ECHL & older NCAA players. Personally I still can’t see Grags returning to the Q as I don’t consider that to be good for his development but looking at the Sabres organizational depth on defense maybe its not such a forgone conclusion that Grags will be signed and play AHL next season. Especially considering that they allowed other top defensive prospects like Funk and Card to play their 20 yr old season in the CHL. And as skilled as Grags is he certainly didn’t show a pro game or much development this season so it should be interesting to follow how Buffalo handles Gragnani. Although I really do wish Gragnani the best and hope that he makes the AHL next season.
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Post by Score on May 29, 2007 13:27:05 GMT -3
3 days left........
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Post by Wallee on May 30, 2007 7:21:00 GMT -3
score,
i think you have too much "time" on your hands....lol
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Post by Score on May 30, 2007 8:43:55 GMT -3
score, i think you have too much "time" on your hands....lol I don't.............neither does Grags!
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Post by Krang7 on May 30, 2007 9:23:16 GMT -3
I'm kinda curious as to whether the Sabres plan on signing him at all. They share their AHL team (Rochester) with the Florida Panthers, so they don't have a lot of room for him there if they do sign him, or at least not as much room as they might have if they had their own AHL affiliate.
What they might be hoping for is that when he goes back into the draft they can get him again, and retain his rights for another period of time (I'm not exactly sure if they get his rights for as long as they did the first time they drafted him, someone will have to educate me on that.) Then they could sign him to play in the ECHL and wouldn't be forced to sign him to an entry level contract right away.
I don't know if this is exactly how it would work or if they would be allowed to do that, but it's just a thought.
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Post by Hockeyfan99 on May 30, 2007 9:54:17 GMT -3
Someone who knows more about this please correct me if I am wrong but my understanding of how things would work is:
If Buffalo signs Gragnani I believe that entry contracts have standardized rates based on the level the player is assigned unless otherwise stated. Eg. $300K for NHL, $75K for AHL and $40K for ECHL (or whatever the standard rates are). This could be the sticking point in negotiations as Gragnani's agent (knowning Buffalo has limited AHL roster spots) may want gauranteed AHL money in case Buffalo assigns Gragnani to the ECHL or Q.
And if Buffalo doesn't sign Gragnani by the June 1st deadline than Gragnani is then eligible to be re-drafted this year.
If a team drafts Gragnani then I believe that team only has 1 yr to sign him (although generally players redrafted are signed immediately and play with an affiliate). But if Gragnani is not signed by June 2008 then he is a free agent and able to sign an AHL or ECHL contract with anyone.
However, if no team drafts Gragnani then he is a free agent effective after this year's draft and can sign with any AHL or ECHL team for the upcoming season.
Again that is just my understanding if this isn't accurate please correct it.
Anyway I said interesting to see what happends with Gragnani although even if he isn't signed with Buffalo I still see the chances of him returning to the Q as very low.
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Post by wingman on May 30, 2007 22:58:46 GMT -3
If Buffalo signs Gragnani I believe that entry contracts have standardized rates based on the level the player is assigned unless otherwise stated. Eg. $300K for NHL, $75K for AHL and $40K for ECHL (or whatever the standard rates are). This could be the sticking point in negotiations as Gragnani's agent (knowning Buffalo has limited AHL roster spots) may want gauranteed AHL money in case Buffalo assigns Gragnani to the ECHL or Q. The sticking point could be that Buffalo might want Gragnani back in the Q next season and Gragnani figures that he has seen everything there is to see in junior per an interview that he did for a paper a few weeks ago. In that same interview, Gragnani said himself that before the season started that Buffalo wanted him to work on his defensive game. This may be a bit harsh and it is only my opinion, but defensively Gragnani sucked at various times and alot of times it was due to poor effort. If Buffalo feels that Gragnani needs more work on his defensive game, AHL might not be an option due to a numbers game and I don't believe that Buffalo has an ECHL affiliate. Gragnani is a good skater who likes to join/lead the rush up the ice. At times it seemed like the only time he would put in an effort was when he was on the offense. Well that is not going to cut it in pro, even at the AHL level, because in the AHL he is not going to be able to free wheel offensively like he did in junior. Usually pro coaches want their defenseman to be responsible defensively first before taking chances offensively, and that is the way they coach in Buffalo. If Buffalo plays that way, chances are Rochester plays that way too. Gragnani had every chance this past season and the season before to work on his defensive game, become a more rounded defenseman and be a leader on and off the ice. But instead he chose to remain a one-dimensional player who shit on other players on the ice and from what has been posted on here, has been a problem in the dressing room. I think he is a very talented hockey player who could have a successful pro career and he might accomplish that, but if he doesn't, he has no one to blame but himself.
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Post by Hockeyfan99 on May 31, 2007 7:53:24 GMT -3
Good points Wingman and I agree with your assessment.
However, highly skilled players like that can get away with taking shortcuts in the CHL which they can't do in the pros.
Meaning that for next season the best way for Gragnani to improve his defensive game and become a more rounded player is to move up to the AHL or at least the ECHL. Returning to the Q isn't going to do as much for developing him (IMO).
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Post by David Aebischer on May 31, 2007 9:03:53 GMT -3
Good points Wingman and I agree with your assessment. However, highly skilled players like that can get away with taking shortcuts in the CHL which they can't do in the pros. Meaning that for next season the best way for Gragnani to improve his defensive game and become a more rounded player is to move up to the AHL or at least the ECHL. Returning to the Q isn't going to do as much for developing him (IMO). Carle is in the same boat for RN. The problem with their defensive game for the most part is that they think offense 95% of the time(some of it by necessity) and take shortcuts defensively. Once thos guys go pro, their defensive game improves quickly, 1-because they are not expected to generate a ton of offense like in junior and 2-because they know they will get benched if they don't play well defensively unlike in the Q. Danny Groulx is a perfect example, in Victo he was very offensive and took a ton of chances, not because he didn't know how to play defense, but because he was the catalyst for their offense/transition game. Same with Sanford and Yandle.
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Post by Hockeyfan99 on Jun 1, 2007 7:33:47 GMT -3
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